we have breaking news right now on msnbc. the house of representatives is reconvening to consider the fiscal cliff deal. overwhelmingly approved by the senate in the wee hours of this new year. republicans meet at 1:00. the democrats are said to be going in now and that vice president joe biden who, of course, was key in making the senate deal happen, will be in that caucus, we're told. big questions, though, still outstanding. when might the house vote on this deal? can speaker boehner come up with the votes to pass it? or will republicans try to amend it and end send it back. good day. happy new year. i'm chris jansing. there are a lot of moving parts on capitol hill. let's get right to nbc's luke russert who is on the hill and where things stand. first, let's listen into the start of this session. >> the speakers are in washington d.c., january 1,

2013. i hereby hereby appoint the honorable robert j. dole to act as speaker in temporary on this day, signed john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. >> the prayer will be offered by our chaplain father conroy. >> let us pray. eternal god, we give you thanks for giving us another day, a new year. the political struggles of the past year have revealed the divisions that exist in our nation. there are many american citizens who are angry, frustrated, and anxious for the future. this day is a day of history. send your spirit upon the members of the people's house. may an imperfect compromise when viewed from the perspective of our differences not be undermined by a desire for political victory.

this is difficult for all. give each member the grace of courage to forge a constructive solution for the good of the nation and all americans. help us to trust that no matter what you will not abandon us. all that is done this day, may it be for your greater honor and glory. amen. >> announces to the house's approval thereof. pursuant to clause one of rule one, the journal stands approved. >> so business is getting underway, but the real business is going on hijd closed doors. let's start, again, with luke russert, and let's start with the democrats, luke, because are they, indeed, meeting right now, and if joe bide seven there, is his presence an indication that he thinks he has some convincing to do on this senate deal? >> well, chris, before i get into that i think we should say that father conroy, the house chaplain, just kind of gave us

endorsement to the senate's passed bill saying, dear god, don't let an imperfect bill be run amok because of some political differences, someone trying to make a political statement. you usually don't see the house chaplain interjecting themselves into these types of negotiations. >> i don't know. the last couple of days what i have been hearing they have been wanting to get this done as much as any other american. >> so maybe divine intervention will be the end all be all, but you mentioned joe biden. we know his motorcade is on the way here up to the house of representatives. he is talking with the house democrats. they're meeting. presumably he is coming in as the closer. similar to what he did as his democratic colleagues. this idea that this is the white house backed position. it's a very good deal for all of us. we're not going to give up any leverage on the debt ceiling. come to reinsure any anxious democrats who might not like this deal because they don't like the threshold number going from 400,000 through 250,000 to 400,000. nancy pelosi, chris, never has a problem getting the votes if she

needs it. if anything else, it's just joe biden doing some housekeeping today. >> house republicans, though, have their own marker. marco rubio said he could not support the bill because he thinks the income tax hike on families making over $450,000 a year conversely he thinks will hurt small businesses. is it possible? what's the thought there, luke, about a conservative revolt, something that would mean amendments and maybe kicking this bill back to the senate? >> it is certainly possible. you have to remember, you can't put anything past the house republican conference. you look back at last year in december of 2011 there was a payroll tax cut extension. it passed with 89 votes, the same number away we saw passed early this morning. the house then killed it four days later. we've seen this movie before. not saying it could happen today, but it's a distinct possibilities. a lot of democrats don't like the fact that this bill they feel does not cut enough spending and extend unemployment as the debt, and it also keeps alive some of the president's targeted tax cuts that were part of the stimulus bill. all things they don't like. the question now becomes when

john boehner has that meeting at 1:00 p.m., that's the most important meeting of all these fiscal cliff negotiations, when he has that meeting, does his conference say, you know what, this is a great deal, let's end this now, let's go fight another day, come the debt limit, come the government funding bill, or does a group say this is an imperfect compromise and we need to send it back with an amendment. is there a group that says, no, we're completely revolting. i think the marco rubio vote is interesting. the presidential implications of 2016 if he decides to run, but what does paul ryan do after seeing that marco rubio vote? does paul ryan then decide, hey, maybe i'm thinking about my future, maybe i'm a no. that's significant in the house because paul ryan is really an intellectual leader for a lot of members, and they look to him for guidance about how to vote on these types of irz. i know the leadership would love to are have him on board. he is probably a dutyful soldier, but you never know the implications for 2016. is it a distinct possibility? yes. we will see, chris. you can't put anything past this house republican congress. i'm told boehner would like to

have 100 republicans on his side before he goes to the floor. >> that mate might take a while. majority leader cantor said no decision had been made on when they would vote on this. anything flew on that? >> as of right now that's very fluid. if everything were to go right, one would assume probably a late afternoon, early evening vote, but if they have to have a real whip, if they really have to find a lot of members, if they decide to go to the floor, this could be a late one. same thing with nancy pelosi. she might want time to get her caucus in line. no guarantees. one would think after everything that's happened, when you have father conroy on the house floor invoking divine intervention for this deal not to be broken apart, there would be a good chance of this passing. i can't stress enough. you never know what the house republican conference. they're known to kill things in the 11th hour, this entire congress. sdroo do not pack up the cut yet, luke russert.

>> take care. >> joining us to discuss the deal in more detail is democratic congressman jason altmeyer from pennsylvania. congressman, good to see you. good morning. or good afternoon, i guess, now on the east coast here. texas senator kay bailey hutchison said she thought the deal was about even. that's the way she put it in terms of both sides getting what they want and having to sort of put up with some stuff that they didn't. do you think that's a fair assessment? >> i do. i think that's exactly what happened. the tax cut number is a little bit higher than democrats had hoped. it's lower than the republicans had hoped. the dividends and capital gains rate basically they split the difference. the sequester delay -- i think it represents a good faith and at the end result it's a compromise. sdoo let me ask you where you are going. to luke's point, nancy pelosi has not had trouble getting votes when she really wanted them, but there are some rumblings about some concerns within the -- especially the conservative republican ranks. what do you think is going to happen here? is it going to happen today?

will it go through? >> we'll get the overwhelming majority of democrats. without question, the republicans have a challenge, but i think in the end they'll get about half, maybe a little less than half of the republicans, and in the end i do think we're going to get this done today. >> leaders agree on this deal, but obviously it puts off some of the tough decisions that have to be made yet, including this drawn out fight that's still coming over the debt ceiling. do you think the american people have the stomach for more of this? >> the process is always done on deadline. the sequester and tax cuts is not an accident. it's because we had to force a deadline. there's another one coming in march or april with the debt ceiling. then another one on september 30th when the fiscal year ends and the new budget is due. it's going to continue to be done. it's unfortunate that the partisanship is intervening in a way that we as a congress are just incapable of getting anything done unless auerbachs are literally against the wall. >> during your time in congress,

you have introduced several bills to help military families and veterans. now, as part of this cliff deal, of course, most of the spending cuts are due to hit the pentagon. they were.off for two months. i'm wonder whatting your thoughts are and how we should address military spending going forward, how much money do you think legitimately could be cut from the pentagon's budget? >> that's the concern that everybody had. especially for our military in a haphazard across the board way. is every penny spent wisely and as efficiently as it possibly could be? of course not. are there efficiency that is could be made? yes, of course. we need to look at the restructuring of the military and the way we can fund our budgets, but to just do it across the board in such a haphazard way is a disservice to the brave men and women who are serving the country. >> congressman, good to see you, and thank you so much for taking the time. happy new year. >> democratic strategist chris and republican strategist joe

watkins. good morning, gentlemen. >> through all the talks we've seen that speaker boehner has a trouble rallying his house republicans. what's your sense? will he be able to get this done and get this deal put through? >> i think we have a shot to get this done. he doesn't need every republican, and there will be a fair number of them who won't join him who will do exactly what marco rubio did on the senate side. they'll be against any new revenues at all, and that's just probably going to be what it is. i think we have a chance to get this done. if he can cobble together 100 or so, if he can get a fair number of his republicans with him, i think there's a chance to get this done today. >> can you give us some insight, chris, why you think we had these democrats, senator bennett, harken, carper, voting no on the fiscal cliff deal, and how much that might rub off on the democratic side? i don't think there's any real concern on the democratic side, but there is still some discontent. >> i think there's some discontent. the art of compromise is getting a deal that no one likes, and

there's always going to be some extent people who don't like certain parts of the deal. for democrats it had to do primarily with the rates that the president drew a line at 250, and he had to move because that was the reality of trying to get something passed, and i think that's what you saw with the -- you know, there was only a handful really in the senate. in the house i think you'll probably lose a few democrats. the real leakage and slippage will be on the republicans and whether speaker boehner can even get a little bit over 100 of his members to support it. that's, i think, the real question. does he have a full scale rebellion when he meets to sell them on this deal. we've seen this before, as we've heard some of the commentators talk about that this notion that republicans will balk at what the senate proposes. that's what people are focussing on right now. it's not clear whether speaker boehner has any leverage -- well, actually it is clear he has no leverage. what leverage does he have even to get the numbers he needs to get this passed.

>> well, there is a political reality here, joe, and i understand these congressmen are elected, and 75% of them in jerry mandarin districts. you know, we're dealing with that reality. >> right. all politics are local. >> there's also the reality that the majority of the american people want to get this done. the majority of the american people have said that they think taxes should go up on the wealthiest americans, and do you think that republicans can legitimately make this argument that if you tax people making as a couple more than $450,000 a year the net effect is that you're going to kill small businesses? >> well, the majority of republicans certainly on the senate side realize that it's important to get this done so that all americans don't suffer. if you can at least take care of 99% of americans, that's a deal that they can live with. the question is whether or not the house can live with that. you saw what marco rubio said. marco rubio felt that even taxing households single individuals making $400,000 and

households making over $450,000, that that was unacceptable because that would be a killer for small business. he has a point because a lot of small business owners are people who are in that category and when they take a hit in their taxes, they tend to cut back on hiring new people. they might even lay people off. so it could have an adverse affect on employment numbers going forward. at the end of the day we need to get this done so that the majority of americans don't get hurt by automatic tax increases. i think that -- >> let me just stop you there and chris ask you if you buy that. there's a lot of disagreement about the number of people who actually will be affected by this in terms of being small business owners and the number of people they employ. >> this has been the argument that the republicans keep, you know, using to make -- to make the notion that you can't increase taxes and you can't increase revenues. the reality is you are talking about 98% of small businesses that fall below the threshold they're talking about.

again, the problem here is not that anyone wants to raise taxes. this notion that republicans make this argument the democrats are just out there eager to raise taxes on everyone. that is just fantasy. the reality here is we have a fiscal problem. we have a debt and deficit problem. you have to have increased revenues. you cannot solve this -- >> you also have to cut spending though, chris. >> you cannot cut spend ago loan. >> republicans say you have to do both of them. you have to cut spending, and you also if you want to raise revenues, if we give someone on the revenue side, we've got to also look at the cutting spending, and that's kind of the give and take between republicans and democrats. >> but i agree with you, you have to cut spending. tell me the republican that's out there talking about cutting defense spending, which is the largest chunk of our budget when you are talking about, you know, separating social security, medicare, and medicaid. nobody wants to talk about defense spending cuts. this is the problem that we have. we have to be honest about the problem and republicans are not. when they talk -- when they tell the american people that we can solve this simply by what tax cuts, it's a fantasy.

>> well, let me ask you both then. i mean, a big problem, obviously, is the distrust that has built up between both sides. you know, you had to bring in vice president biden and mitch mcconnell to make this deal. you have even bigger challenges ahead as we've been talking about all day long, so i'm wondering, joe, is there anything that we can learn from what we've seen over the last couple of days, even last several weeks, and ways to fix it that could sort of mitigate what everybody is looking at to be a disaster when we start talking about the debt limit and sequestration. i think cooler heads need to prevail. people need to look at not saefrl interest but of the interest of all americans, and compromise is going to be the -- really the name of the game here. the degree to which republicans and more republicans more so than democrats are willing to

compromise for the sake of all americans, and the hope is that the congressman boehner, speaker boehner, can cobble together this 100 plus republican coalition to side with democrats to get this thing passed. if he can do that, then we might have ourselves a bill today. >> chris, if we can make a pretty safe prediction, would it be that joe biden, who is already arguably the most powerful vice president we've ever had is going to be very busy in the new year? >> i think if history is any indication, we're going to be facing the same kind of situation again. i know that's not what the american people want to hear, but that is the sad reality. the way the congress right now is working it's dysfunctional. they wait until the last minute to deal with this thing -- these things. i think the vice president, i think, played a critical role in making this happen. i think he is going to play a criminal role again, and until i think members of congress and particularly republican party realizes that compromise is not a four-letter word, it's actually a good thing for the

country. it's what the american people want. until they realize that, we're going to keep repeating this again and again. >> chris, joe, it's great to see you guys. happy new year. >> great to see you. happy new year to you. >> happy new year. >> much more coming up on the special new year's day edition of msnbc. throughout the hour i'll be joipd by republican senator -- who says house republicans should accept the fiscal cliff deal, did democratic congressman peter welch as well as congresswoman sheila jackson lee. stay with us. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i can't stop eating 'em! what's...that... on your head? can curlers! tomato basil, potato with bacon... we've got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

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what we are going to do in the present plan is put on nearly another $1 t we are back with breaking news coverage of the fiscal cliff, and we are told that joe biden, the vice president, is just leaving. he is going to be heading over earlier. here's a live picture now. we learned earlier that he was going to go over as the democratic caucus was meeting and they were scheduled to go in at noon. the republicans, as we've been telling you, going in at 1:00. that may be a little tougher sell for john boehner than it is for nancy pelosi.

we're keeping our eye on these movements. this deal that was reached by vice president biden and the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell gained the support of most, but not all senate republicans. one who voted in the affirmative. senator, thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you, chris. >> let's talk a little bit about how this thing moves forward. is it your assumption that at the end of the day the republicans and the democrats on the house side will have voted yes and that it will be on to the next battle? >> i believe that's right. it's looking like they won't vote, however, until tomorrow or possibly the day after. i do think ultimately they will pass the legislation, and then we've got to work diligently on finding real savings to address the deficit and the debt as well as bipartisan entitlement reform to preserve -- to save those programs for the long-term. >> well, let me ask you, first, about this idea that that might -- the vote might not come together.

certainly that has been an indication. is it going to be because the house republicans make some amendments and kick it back to you guys in the senate? >> that's possibly, but what they're saying right now is that they need to read through the legislation, maybe sure they fully understand it, but then they also need the caucus and understand where they are. they need to discuss it, go through, understand, you know, what everybody is thinking, and where the votes are. how long that takes will dictate when they bring it to the floor. >> find this money, savings, deficit, deficit reduction. where do you start with that? what do you think the republican strategy should be? there's been a lot of criticism, as you know. i was thinking about david brooks, who was on "meet the press" over the weekend, and he was saying that the problem with the republicans, frankly sshgs that they have a brain freeze. they have no strategy. is there a strategy? >> absolutely. we work to get a $4 trillion deal, which included a program of tax reform, entitlement reform, and reductions in

spending. that didn't happen. we weren't able to get that deal. we got one piece of it, and that is going to help with economic growth because we made these lower tax rates permanent. that's going to help our economy grow, create revenue through growth rather than higher taxes. we have got to do the entitlement reform. we've got to find real savings, and it has to be in that $4 trillion range to reduce the deficit and debt, and i think that also is part of really getting the kind of economic growth we need with that certainty that we give the markets to not only create jobs, get people back to work, but get that economic growth that will generate the revenue to get on top of the deficit and the debt. it all goes together. >> on those numbers, a lot of you folks on the republican side are pretty far apart from where the democrats are right now, and i'm just wondering because you're pretty new to the senate, you've been there just a couple of years now. have you been surprised at the level of partisanship? >> you know, i was a governor for ten years before i came here, and you have to work with republicans and democrats to get

things done. that has got to happen here. we have to find ways to come together. again, if we can't get the whole thing done at once, we've got to get pieces done, but we've got to get a result for the american people. that's our job. >> senator john, i don't think the american people would disagree with that, and they're waiting for it to get done. thank you so much for being with us, sir. happy new year. >> thanks, cress. again, happy new year. >> we are just about 30 minutes away from the big meeting on capitol hill that will include speaker boehner briefing republicans on this senate passed fiscal cliff bill, and big question is how many of his republicans will he get on board, and at the same time we know that there's some movement on the democratic side with the vice president heading over for the democrats who are meeting. stay with us. a lot going on in this special hour of breaking news on msnbc. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home...

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>> this is the video we just got of vice president joe biden meeting on capitol hill to meet with democrats. in the meantime, we're fwegt this word from missed the republican caucus. they're having this meeting at 1:00, and obviously it's going to be an opportunity for speaker boehner to sell the senate plan.

having said that, we are now told that this is going to be about discussing potential options seeking member feedback. no decision on the path forward is expected before another meeting, and that's going to be held later today, so don't expect a vote or even a decision about the vote after that 1:00 meeting by the republicans. >> even though the senate took care of business last night, not a lot of shocks. obviously a lot of signs to watch on both sides. you saw video there that you played of the vice president going over to talk to democrats. for republicans they want to really make sure that before they bring anything forward they want to have the votes. it will look bad if they can't

round them up again like they did last week with the plan b, and i think boehner can't afford any more mishaps, so there will be a lot of internal discussions before they move forward. >> if you are the republican vote wrangler, how tough is it? maybe perry is not hooked up yet. >> oh, i'm here, chris. yes, if you are the -- >> if you are the rth republican vote wrangler, and we just reported that they said that they're not going make a decision on anything in this 1:00 meeting, not only if and when to vote that, that's going to come after a second member meeting sometime later in the day, so we know that there's going to be a delay, and david was just making the point that you want to make sure you have the votes before you go in and have that vote. how tough is it going to be for speaker boehner? >> it's going to be tough because this deal has -- it doesn't have spending cuts right now. it has a lot of provisions from the 2009 stimulus, which is like any republican in congress voting against. this is not going to be easy because speaker boehner wants to get about 100 republican votes.

they don't want it this bill to pass only with democrats because republicans run the house. they want to show that they are really in control. so it's easy to have a hard day today making sure enough republicans want to -- are you seeing some republicans jason from utah coming out against this deal, and this is early in the day. i think more republicans in the house will come out against this. marco rubio, in the senate came out against it. a long way to go here, i think. >> yeah. we were wonder if anything paul ryan will do the same, david. >> yes, absolutely. that's going to be a big sign. there's a lot of sense that marco rubio on the senate side voted against it to position himself for 2016. republicans are going to understand some of that, i think. they're going to let some of their more conservative members who aren't going to come around anyway not vote for it, but what's important is that the speaker himself has a lot riding on this. not his speakership. you know, he will be re-elected on thursday for another round, but really just coming out looking, you know, like he is in control to some extent and can deliver when you really have to when it gets down to crunch time like this. he can't afford once again to

have it look like did he last week where he threw up his hands and said god knows how we're going to get to this, and lighted me to the senate and vice president bide tony show them how to did a deal. that's what's riding on it and also the jord leader cantor is right there lock step with him this time. it's still the congress until thursday and maybe we won't have a vote not just today, but maybe not tomorrow. >> the timing of this is just driven, in part, by the market's opening which we're not going to be open today, which will be open tomorrow. i think it's the timeline to happen, and there are enough votes here. remember, the plan b thick we talked about a few week ago. most republicans many congress are going to vote for it. there are enough republicans who say they'll support a tax

increase somehow to pass this deal. this passed 89-8 in the senate yesterday. there's no reason there shouldn't be enough democrats and republicans to keep this approved by the end of the day. that will happen at some point. >> how do you think the last minute deal sets up what we're going it see now in february, march, some of the even tougher issues like the debt ceilings that are coming up? >> that's the problem. republicans do not want to include the debt ceiling here because they want to maintain that leverage. the president was out and just yesterday with this press conference said people said it's piling on republicans, and at the last minute it scuttled any senate deal. he was trying to reassure democrats that he is not giving up on potentially more revenue increases through tax reform or other measures to go along with whatever they do to cut spending and to deal with the debt ceiling. i think you're going to see pretty much a replay going down to the wire in two months when we're about to hit the debt limit, and both sides are going to be back to square one in terms of trying to figure out what the mix is going to be. >> david perry, gentlemen, thank you so. much. >> thanks a lot, chris. >> up next we will get an update

from the white house. i'll also talk to republican congressman tom cole who says "we'll live to fight another day." he is urging the senate republicans to accept the bill.

>> an imperfect compromise when viewed from the perspective of our differences, not be undermined by a desire for political victory. this is difficult for all. give each member the grace of courage to forge a constructive solution for the good of the nation and all americans. >> father patrick conroy offering a prayer as the house cob conveniented about a half hour ago to consider the fiscal cliff deal that was approved by the senate very early this morning. we're waiting for word on when the house will meet on the

fiscal cliff deal or whether house republicans might try to change it. the white house, of course, keeping a close watch on developments. in fact, we just learned that the vice president has arrived into the democratic meeting. nbc's mike mccara is live at the white house for us. what's the expectation there? >> i think that white house officials are relatively confident that this is going -- that this thing is going to go through the house of representatives, and that is really a remarkable development in and of itself, chris, when you consider the fact that it was just ten days ago when the speaker of the houshgs john boehner, put that bill on the floor, plan b, that would have raised taxes on all individuals making more than $1 million. we know what happened. it crashed and burned. things punted to the senate, bringing us to the point we are today. now that threshold has moved considerably lower. it is considerably higher than many democrats, particularly from some on the left we heard from that are dissatisfied with the president and the deal that he has struck with the vice president and mitch mcconnell. they wanted it at $250,000. it's now at $450,000 for those

couples filing jointly. the fact -- the mere fact that it passed with such an incredibly wide margin, 89-8 last night in the senate, gosh, that was shocking. then it moves on to the house. they're going to hash it out. john boehner is going to take the temperature with his top deputies of his rank-and-file and see what can be done. here's the argument that's being made to republicans. look, we're going to live to fight another day. yes. there are plenty of things in here for everybody to hate. i'm going to coin that phrase. i'm going to trademark that phrase because three things come

across. come march. the debt ceiling deal -- these inskrim nat cuts are being displayed. they would happen many march if nothing is done. leadership is telling their rank-and-file, that's the ground we can fight on. that's when we're really going to get our way. >> many people are horrified at the prospect of another political battle surrounding the good faith and credit of the united states government. after all, they point out, it is the congress that passed these spending bills that the federal government is trying to pay for. congress is essentially saying, here, do this, but we're not going to give you the money to do it. that is going to be a fascinating game. people are pretty much tired of dysfunction here in the beltway, but on it goes.

at any rate -- >> let me ask you about the white house side of this. i'm assuming that, you know, looking forward to the triple play, the white house thinks they have a couple of good things going for them, and both of them are speeches. one is the state of the union, and the other one even before that is the inaugural. >> yeah, and i think the republicans look at it this way. they knew they were in a box after the election. they got defeated convince leg in the election, chris, and that is why you saw john boehner come out the day after the election and try to jump out in front of this tidal wave that was coming his way on the fiscal cliff. he said, yes, he conceded. we'll raise revenues. we'll raise $800 billion over ten years in revenue, but we won't do it by raising tax rates. we'll do it by closing loopholes, taking away some deducks that are very popular incidentally.

>> obviously the president has given ground. much on his left who thinks he just does not play hardball enough with these republicans. i think that they think once this is over, once the election sort of hangover is worn off in two months we could have a different climate and a different ground to fight on. >> thank you. >> okay. >> while the deal on the fiscal cliff got brought by partisan support, there are a lot of people on the left and the right unhappy. >> are you one of the folks that thinks the president hasn't played hardball enough is this. >> on revenues, no. >> this was our best opportunity to get a substantial contributor to a broad agreement. there's a lot of disappointment on the revenue outcome. on the other hand, there's two other issues that the president had to pay attention to. one is the broad affect of

the -- on the economy, and this is a do no harm outcome as far as the economy is concerned. >> republicans ask democrats, whatever your point of view, is we've got that triple play or triple jeopardy we're saying. we're just going to have that nightmare scenario in a couple of months. >> sense you brought up the whole overall affect on the economy, we all know what happened with this debt ceiling fight. >> we had our first credit downgrade, number one. number two, it cost american

taxpayers about $90 billion in additional interest payments over the next ten years, and then the other thing is that the american people know what this is now. they know the debt ceiling is the government saying they're going to stiff creditors. they're not going to pay bills, and americans don't like that. they don't want to spend any more than we can afford, but they want us to pay our bills. that's what people do in their homes. >> tell me how you think this is going to unfold on your side. the president had other considerations that are also valid, and i think it's going to be valid on mr. boehner's side. the republican congress knows that had he to put something on the floor and that are revenues were going to go up. they just don't want their fingerprints on it. there's going to be an enormous amount of republicans who want

to vote no. he is in a bind. sfoo we talked about this before. this has been the least productive congress in history. it's certainly the most unpopular. i think the latest approval rating is something like 12%, and, you know, we talk about this triple threat, but there's a lot of other things on the pre president and congressional agenda. there are huge. things like immigration. things like the president who has said he wants to do gun control, and if i can, i want to read for you what jonathan wrote in new york magazine headlined "why is obama caving on tacks" noting that he campaigned successfully on tax hikes for those making above $250,000, he writes the erosion signals a major substantive problem in its own right, but it raises disturbing questions about obama's ability to hand his entire second term agenda. is that fair? >> well, it's a question.

i mean, it's -- obviously it's a fair question. the bottom line here is that what would happen if we went over the cliff? in my view it was worth hanging in there because this was the one and only time we were going to get revenues. i say that with some appreciation for the fact that everyday americans want us to get something done and we have another couple of months where fights will continue on. now, all of us will be looking to the president to be very aggressive in his leadership on the gun issue, on immigration reform. i think the more he weighs in with the assertive and middle class agenda, the stronger he will be. >> congressman, it's a pleasure to have you on the program on this new year's day. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we've been telling you, we're just moments away from when we expect john boehner will start the first of two closed-door meetings with his republican conference, and they're going to start by wanting to gauge whether there's enough support for the fiscal cliff bill. with me is congressman tom cole of oklahoma who would be a part of those meetings. congressman, good afternoon to

you. >> good to see you, chris. >> tell me what you think is going to happen inside this first meeting. >> well, i think obviously we're going to get fully brief odd what's in the senate bill? most members haven't had a chance to read it. we're going to have some interesting discussions. i think there's obviously a concern on a number of areas. >> tell me where you think those discussions will focus, where the concerns will focus? >> the big single concern will be there is not enough in terms of spending reduction. the obvious answer to that is that's coming because sequester is pro months away and the debt ceiling in that time frame. we'll be dealing with spending next. i think there will also be some -- frankly, almost theological debate as to whether this is a tax increase. in my view, it's not. taking 85% of the bush tax cuts and making them permanent, something we couldn't do when george bush was president and we had both houses, that's a big win.

that's not a loss. he obviously got a school districtry at the very highest level on rates. you know, there's certainly some elements that both sides can say are a win, but at the end of the day this was the best card that president had to play in terms of revenue. he has played it. if we get this taken care of, that's out of the game, and honestly i think our negotiating position visa vi the white house is infinitely stronger when this is settled. >> just moments ago on msnbc democratic congressman adam shift talked about his concerns with your party regarding the next steps of this bill. let me play that for you. >> i would strongly caution the house republicans that if they do amend this, if they monkey around with what the senate agreed to on a very strongly bipartisan basis, they'll need to put up the votes to pass it. i'm not sure they can do it. it may die in the senate if they do it, and if they do that, they will own this. my biggest concern is that the house of representatives gets

cute and they try to either put poison pills in it or try to amend it to get a few more of their members to vote for it. >> i probably would use different words than my good friend adam has used, but as i essentially agree with his point. look, this is very late in the process. there will be some discussion about potential amendments. that's legitimate. i think you have to recognize when the senate worked until 2:00 last night when the markets opened tomorrow in a situation like this, speed is more important than perfection. there will be epileptic of opportunities for spending and what have you. deal is a deal. we can debate as to whether it's a good deal or not. i think at the end of the day a majority of republicans will support it. we ought to take this and then move to ground. we're on much firmer footing. we have a great deal more leverage, and that's spending, entitlement reform, and eths, again, are the ones that are coming up.

many of the, people are very concerned about what we're looking at, and john mccain released this statement on the deal saying, in part, it should be embarrassing to all of us that it took -- excuse me -- until the last hours of the last day of the we're to address an issue we should have dealt with months ago. this marks another sad chapter in what has been the least productive congress since 1947. there's been a lot of talk like that, but what indication do you have as you talk about things like the sequester which is not going to be easy that anyone's approach is going to change, congressman? >> well, nobody got elected because the job was easy. >> the problems that the country faces, in terms of putting his fiscal house in order, are enormous. the president has had four years to address this. he hasn't done it. $4 trillion deficits in a row, and in two of those years he had absolute control of congress.

americans deal with more difficult situations in their daily lives than we are dealing with right now. we need to make tough decisions and make them work for the american people. this is a tough decision for many members. i think it's as good a deal as can you get given where everybody is at. that's going to reforming intigtsments and facing up to the issues in front of us. >> congressman tom cole of oklahoma, it's bad to talk to you again. >> good to talk to you. >> we are just getting new video in. this is vice president biden arriving on capitol hill just to meet with house democrats. we're watching what's going on inside that room as well. we'll have much more when we come back. throughout our build

ask them about the pay freeze. talk to them. i think they'll tell you another story. >> fellow republicans discuss the fiscal cliff deal. sheila jackson from texas was in the room with the democrats. she joins me now. congresswoman. happy new year. >> happy new year, chris, to you, and happy new year to mesh. >> well, i know you ducked out of the meeting, but can you give us a sense of what it was like in that room? >> i certainly can. first of all, let me thank president obama and vice president biden working as a team on behalf of the american people and for showing the extent of patience that they've had to show over these last couple of months and certainly since august of 2011. there's about an a great deal of patience, and i think as the

meeting has begun with the vice president he was appropriately respectful of how challenging an effort this was, but more importantly, how important this was for the american people and the trust that was given to him by the president and leader reid to engage with jord leader mcconnell who had heretofore, if you will, joined with the chorus of naysayers not wanting to do figure. right now we are going over what the proposal is to the american people. let me just say this. i spent a lot of time looking at the basic principles of this propos proposal. we pet last evening with the caucus into the evening on the initial details. we can claim victory that we protected the middle class. we have provided at this point

the doctor fix was so very important and making sure that a number of items impact the middle class and did not impact them negatively. >> as you know, speaker boehner is going to have quite a sell job to do. much more difficult one than maybe vice president biden is having in his conversation with democrats. i think we feel good, but the republicans are going to have to ask the question do they represent grover norquist or the tea party or do they represent the american people is this we will have to ask the question whether or not we will be ultimately held hostage on the debt ceiling toop or heinous spending cuts that will impact the most vulnerable of americans. what are the republicans'

intentions? will they vote on this and work in a bipartisan manner in this as we move towards the question of lifting the debt ceiling? what i think speaker boehner will have to do in his mind, he will be looking to craft out how many votes that he will have leaning on democrats. maybe his first approach will be how many republicans he can have to pass it. they will begin be unhappy and not want to be clab rattive and want to be obstructionist. that will be his challenge as to whether or not he can lead a number of his members to make the decision to vote on what has been a strained negotiations and whether or not we can do it on behalf of the american people. >> congresswoman, thank you very much. i know you need to get back into the meeting, and we need to call it an hour. >> thank you. >> here on msnbc. i'm chris jansing. happy new year. up

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